Hi Reed, I remember you from Wheaton. I agree that the most interesting discussions would involve a group of people who were all questioning or all equally uninvested in any particular view. However there are few if any of these discussions going on because those with strongly-held views will usually intrude to try to promote their own views. That’s why I didn’t start this blog until I was sure what I believed (or didn’t). I wanted to be able to make my own discoveries without trying to be persuaded by people with no investment in my decision. I did have discussions with friends and professors (all Christians) while I was still questioning, but I found that as soon as I revealed that I was actually questioning the faith, they immediately went into “crisis mode” to keep me from falling away. I didn’t have the fortune of finding any fellow seekers when I was in that position. So my blog does only tell the story from the position of knowing where I stand and discussing how I dealt with it. I’m the kind of person who likes to gather information and process it on my own, but for those who like to explore and process with others, I would definitely be interested in reading a blog like that if you were to start one. I’m interested in hearing your story, and no matter what the outcome, spiritual journeys are enriching and enlightening.

I am a Wheatie around your “vintage”; heard about your blog from a youth pastor back home while on Fall Break in ’07 or so. I am currently studying at Duke Divinity. And I’m currently not identifying as a Christian; I’m just weighing all the evidence. You can probably appreciate that that’s a difficult place to be. I’m glad you had an outlet to honestly write about your struggles while an atheist at Wheaton (if few other outlets). And your blog helped accomplish what you wanted it to: deal with and reveal the realities of being an atheist at Wheaton. But I find it less than helpful in the place I’m at now. Both the Christians you interacted with at Wheaton and you as an atheist were firmly committed to your positions and came at questions with a priori answers (as did/do many of your blog responders). I think that genuine discussion of deep questions could be better had by people less tenaciously defending one view against the other, hard as that may be.

I am sure you have changed, grown, and refined your position since this post…so what I am about to say may not matter anymore…but here goes:

I think it’s somewhat unfair to say that Christians somehow don’t deal with death simply by believe in the resurrection. Christians, just like anyone else, are humans, too…and we experience loss, hurt, pain, sorrow, sadness, depression, and all the range of human emotions no less than another other human being. To suggest that Christians “never accepting loss, never going through the proper stages of grief, and never undergoing the self-analysis and growth required for coming to terms with one’s own mortality” is simply not true. If a loved one of mine died today, I think I would experience a deep sense of loss, and I would grieve, even when I believe I would see this person again at the resurrection, and even if I believe they are indeed in a better place. And I’ve seen it in my family and my friends when they have suffered a loss, they grieve and deal with their grieve. Our mortality is a part of our human condition, and by choosing to believe in a so called afterlife, does not and should not make anyone less human in our experience of death.

Also, I disagree with the idea that the resurrection is based on the idea of reward for good behavior, since everyone is suppose to be resurrected, not just the righteous and the holy ones. It is true, that after the resurrection, people are judged according to how they have lived, and those who have lived a “good” life is suppose to experience eternal fellowship with God and those who didn’t live a “good” life is suppose to experience eternal separation. I would think, however, that while we can disagree on the standards of what it means to live a “good” life…we can probably agree that if someone does something good, he or she should be rewarded and alternative, if someone does something bad, he or she should be punished. Surely, even atheists can agree to crime and punishment, so why not a rewards system?

It is unfortunate, however, that so many Christians do hold on to “Heaven” like a dessert. But it is also possible for these Christians who are like children to grow up and learn to eat their vegetables simply because they know it’s full of fibers and vitamins and is good for them. It’s also possible for people to develop a taste for vegetables. I know I used to hate egg plant, sweet potato, and taro…but one by one I’ve began to like eating them. I don’t think to be a Christian means I need to be obsessed with going to Heaven. In fact, I don’t even think about it that much anymore, and I certainly don’t think about what I should do or shouldn’t do based on whether God will be happy or upset with me and will let me into Heaven or Hell.

And concerning your statement: “I would be much more attracted to God and to Christ if all of the hundreds of millions of Christians, in the face of mortality, believed that He was a God worth serving with their limited years on Earth, the only years they would ever be given.”
I don’t think whether you believed in God should be affected by how other people choose to deal with their mortality…but I also understand that Christians are suppose to be witnesses for God and for Christ, and what many Christians (maybe most) do must be what Christianity is. And to that, I don’t have a good answer. I wish more Christians would see that going to Heaven and eternal life isn’t the point of believing in Christ and serving Him. It’s an outcome that happens somewhere down the road. Instead, I think Christians should focus on the here and now…the limited years on Earth that you talked about, because even with the afterlife or eternal life (whatever you wish to call it), it’s not here on Earth. No, I think even the most fundamentalist Christians accept that once we die, even if we’re brought back at the resurrection, our time on this Earth is done. So our time on Earth is limited, no matter what our beliefs are about the supernatural…also a part of the human condition.

And this isn’t a part of your post, but I definitely don’t agree with the quote from the second reply: “If Christians really believed paradise awaits them after they die, why do they wear seat belts?”
Life is a gift, not to be taken lightly…even if “paradise” awaits after death. Christian just like anyone have the same survival instincts and desire to live. It’s not fair to say just cause Christian believes that theirs an amazing life-after-death that our life on Earth is not worth living or treasuring. And a Christian, more than anything, have a responsibility not just to him or herself or to loved ones to live…but a Christian has a responsibility to God to treasure this life that He has bestowed.

Anyways…those are just some of my thoughts. If I have offended you in anyway, it’s not my intention at all.

Hope you’re doing well!

It’s a shame because it’s pretty much what I was looking for in a college. High GPA with a lot of students majoring in the social sciences, plus it was fairly close.

I read the admission requirements and saw that I needed to turn in a “Pastoral Recommendation–A recommendation from a pastor, youth pastor, former pastor, Bible study leader, Christian school teacher, church official, or other mature Christian is required. This person should be a mature Christian adult who knows you well and has had opportunity to observe your spiritual life. This person should not be a relative.”

I don’t have a pastoral recommendation because I’m an atheist. I am an active volunteer and do at least 4 instances of volunteer work a month. I like to think I’m a good person with a positive impact on my community, but I just get so frustrated with people who think that spirituality is a prerequisite to compassion.

That being said, if they took Christianity that seriously, I suppose it would have been a matter of time before I would have started to feel unwelcome.

If I may add to what Margy wrote above (and Chuck). When I am faced with the question of morality apart from a belief in Jesus, it is not that I think someone who does not have Christ or His Word is less moral than me or will turn that way, but rather the question is how do we ‘account’ for morality. Maybe that would take the ‘irritating’ out of their question and help the askers to go deeper. I could answer the question according to my Biblical bias, but I assume everyone knows that answer here. I think it is disingenuous to excuse a Biblical world-view answer to that too, because it comes from the Bible while holding a different world-view based on a theory of evolution (not that anyone has done that on this site that I have seen). Both world-views have their presuppositional starting points. For Christians, the final question is Christ; the question is a Person – not the bases for morals.

Thanks for reading and considering.

For Christ,
Jerry

It was just as well because he wouldn’t have been able to convince me either way. Anyway, I see a lot of atheists that attend Christian schools actually become atheists as they learn more about it- these are independent thinkers those with the ability to think for themselves that are not easily persuaded. Like you. 🙂

this world which we live in,is satans world.this is the understanding,God is perfect,we are not.for us to follow God we would have to be the same.when humans went aggainst God,ie not perfect which all of us are,we then follow what took us away from God,ie satan.

but satan follows God,he doesn,t want to be lower than man.which he was told he would be.

enters Jesus,with jesus whose yoke is light,we are rejoined to God.we then have athority over sin,ie satan.

I went through what you went through. It was the worst time of my life. Come thy fount of many blessings is also one my favorite hymns. I came to realize that I was not saved but merely had head knowledge. Every one I spoke too told me the same thing. I finally stopped telling people because it didn’t seem to help. I was miserable. God did not give up on me. He continued to Love me in spite of my rejection of him. I was very pridefull and confused. You are the first person I have heard about this happening too. I accepted Christ tonight. You are the first person I have told. I do not know why I am even writing this. The only sin God does not forgive is unbelief. We can not even believe on our own. I will pray for you.