Manchester was the address for the Cooperative HQ. The tea address was definitely at Leman Street. I know because I worked for them.

Les Blower

Yes, thanks Ruth. Lovely to hear from you on this. I agree wholeheartedly that we should use participatory democracy to complement representative decision making, rather than supplant one with the other.

Complexity, for me, is not where we draw the line. The field of science engagement shows how helpful it can be to use deliberative methods to understand the ethical implications of novel technologies. Even if scientists and the public use different words (‘natural’ for example) to step through this, the results are different to expert led processes. The UK is something of a leader in this, following the pioneering work of Dame Mary Warnock around childbirth.

The example that has become famous of a complementary approach is Ireland, using citizen panels to select issues for constitutional change. Their role is not to decide, that is a representative matter, but to shape what should come forward for decision. The result overcomes inertia and legitimises positive innovation.

In large-scale co-ops, the role of participatory practice can be to close the gap between the representative structures of governance and the distant mass of members. The flower market in Amsterdam revived itself as a co-operative using exactly this approach. In old language this is ‘member engagement’, but with honourable exceptions, it is not done well for the large, often consumer, co-ops. Over time this is a neglect that can prove fatal.

And yes of course, there are still issues to work through in making a success of participation. It is easy to be token, easy to do the opposite and put too much weight on it. If it is any encouragement, these are perhaps the same age old tensions of power and agency that have been at the heart of community development thinking and practice for many, many years! If so, ultimately it is about how power, voice and privilege can dispersed across entrenched lines of exclusion and dispossession.

Just a few thoughts on the article…..

There are issues to be overcome if we opt for these open participation models – it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try but work is needed.

Overcoming the problem of Citizens Panels giving enough time to understand the complexity of significant decisions still seems to be an unsolved issue. The obvious analogy of juries shows a virtually self selecting and not representative cohort tend to be present. I worry that Citizens Panels become the equivalent of referendums as opposed to the option of electing individuals whose values are trusted, to take decisions within a strategic broad and long informed context.

Patient and Service User involvement in health works best I have found, when it helps to set principles and priorities. It becomes less effective when actual decisions need making, but it does force Boards to better set out the case and options that have been considered. Many times I have seen Board decisions being better thought through when the scrutiny of the decision is going to be in a structured environment.

]]> https://edmayo.wordpress.com/2020/04/21/tea-by-numbers-the-quirky-story-of-99-and-1336-co-operative-teas/#comment-109917 Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:05:47 +0000 https://edmayo.wordpress.com/?p=5250#comment-109917 ]]> In reply to Derek Spells.

Wonderful! I always think of 99 red balloons, but that has no tea link whatsoever 😄

Can confirm. I worked at 75 & 99 Leman St, London, in the mid/late-1980s as we were converting it from warehousing into a computer datacentre for NatWest/Centrefile (where I worked). I never did smell any tea there though 😉

Well done you for persisting. This has been a scandal and if you can escalate it, in effect you are doing it too for all those taken for a ride

I took the company to tribunal and won back in June this year. I still haven’t recieved pay and has been esculated further.