The conversation below happened on an apologist’s YouTube video. For some reason my last comment wasn’t posting there, so maybe they’ll see it here.

(Names removed since I didn’t ask permission to post.)

Believer (starting a thread): I wonder sometimes why people resist the idea of God being the cause and creator of everything.

…

Believer (addressing someone else): let me pose an honest question. If someone (most likely not myself) would be able to provide you with sufficient evidence that you no longer in earnest can doubt the validity of a God existing. If that God has mandates on how to live your life. Would you follow them?

Nonbeliever: [Believer], let me answer your question honestly from my opinion. If was proven a particular God existed. I would accept that this god existed. However I may not follow what this God mandates one does, or follow his commandments if I disagreed with them and thought the commandments were harmful and immoral. If Christianity was proven to be true, I would not convert to Christianity. I would accept its God existed but I would still believe his teachings and instructions are immoral and that Yahweh is not worthy of worship.

Believer: [Nonbeliever], your honesty is quite refreshing. I appreciate your thoughtful response.

I do hope you get a chance to read the Christian Bible in its entirety so you can remove any misconceptions.

God bless and have a nice day.

Me: [Believer], FWIW, I’m a former Christian (evangelical / “born again” type), now atheist, and I fully agree with [Nonbeliever]’s sentiment.

I did read all of the (western) Christian Bible, when I was a believer. Unfortunately, my indoctrination at the time prevented me from questioning its claims, and from recognizing the immoral parts as such.

So I have a question and a challenge for you:

If you are mistaken in your beliefs (about God, etc), would you want to know?

If yes, good. The challenge then is to subject your beliefs to the same types of scrutiny and skepticism as you do/would every other religion/God/god. Truth should withstand such scrutiny, right?

If no, that’s your prerogative, but don’t be high on a horse telling people your beliefs are true (and pressuring them to accept them) when you’ve not even examined them yourself.

Believer: If I was on a personal high horse during this chat please point that out to me, so I can correct myself.

As for comparing my faith with other well established religions, rest assured I have, this isn’t a mere case of , my parents , neighbors believe this so I’ll do the same.

I am curious what parts of the Bible you didn’t subscribe to , especially since you’ve read it from top to bottom.

Me: I didn’t mean to say that you were on a high horse in this thread. But usually Christians trying to spread their beliefs will do so at some point.

What was your methodology for examining your beliefs and others? What are your current beliefs, and how did you determine that they are true? Is there evidence that convinced you? If not, why believe?

Offhand, a few examples of biblical ideas that I find to be immoral (and absurd):

1. Endorsing any form of slavery, and failing to repudiate it. Goes for NT & OT. (OT – “Indentured servitude” arguments aside, the Israelites were purportedly allowed to take slaves from surrounding tribes. NT – “slaves obey your masters”, etc.)
2. (Supposed) genocides.
   • (a) Noah’s flood. Even if I bought the rhetoric of how evil people supposedly were, that’s a lot of innocent children below the age of accountability. Including babies, born and unborn.
   • (b) The “promised land” was already occupied by others. In the OT stories, Israel is the invader.
3. The entire notions of scapegoating and blood atonement – at the heart of Christianity.
4. The notion of original sin, and deserving punishment for ancestors’ “sins”.
5. Hell. The notion that eternal conscious torment is warranted for finite crimes. The notion that the best system a righteous God can come up with involves sending the vast majority of humans who have ever lived there (or killing them with fire or whatever, if you’re annihilationist or whatever) – many who haven’t heard the message, or haven’t received sufficient evidence to be convinced, etc.