HTTP/2 200 date: Fri, 10 Oct 2025 03:17:45 GMT content-type: text/plain content-length: 5385 cf-ray: 98c2f7699b5cd86d-BLR content-location: 02-mediafrag-irc.txt vary: negotiate,accept,accept-charset,Accept-Encoding,Origin tcn: choice last-modified: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:12:27 GMT etag: "3eca-4729804be04c0;6020369992946 cache-control: max-age=21600 expires: Fri, 10 Oct 2025 09:17:45 GMT content-encoding: gzip access-control-allow-origin: * x-backend: www-mirrors x-request-id: 98c2f7699b5cd86d strict-transport-security: max-age=15552000; includeSubdomains; preload content-security-policy: frame-ancestors 'self' https://cms.w3.org/ https://cms-dev.w3.org/; upgrade-insecure-requests cf-cache-status: BYPASS accept-ranges: bytes set-cookie: __cf_bm=30.s3I.7yXp9iWEUNh5M3.U9wKW3l0U2eHTyQBFCU4U-1760066265-1.0.1.1-k3fWqbd43kOxCIwJmaS3ZcPWgLh61.inJ5hHz.ojYyw4tG.N6ddc85AP7YotjLfAonT1cDL15QJu8ioDqssrQ4rBatUPuXD4qWtMLDHe7Ks; path=/; expires=Fri, 10-Oct-25 03:47:45 GMT; domain=.w3.org; HttpOnly; Secure; SameSite=None server: cloudflare alt-svc: h3=":443"; ma=86400 11:56:39 RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag 11:56:39 logging to https://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-irc 11:56:41 RRSAgent, make logs public 11:56:41 Zakim has joined #mediafrag 11:56:43 Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG 11:56:43 ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()8:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes 11:56:44 Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference 11:56:44 Date: 02 September 2009 11:57:30 Regrets: Erik, Michael 11:57:33 Chair: Raphael 11:57:49 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Sep/0000.html 11:59:39 IA_MFWG()8:00AM has now started 11:59:46 +raphael 12:00:19 Present: Raphael, Davy, Silvia, Yves 12:00:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael 12:00:55 tmichel has joined #mediafrag 12:02:05 + +329331aaaa 12:02:16 zakim, aaaa is davy 12:02:16 +davy; got it 12:03:34 +thierry 12:03:55 Present+ thierry 12:04:03 +silvia 12:04:11 zakim, who is here ? 12:04:11 On the phone I see raphael, davy, thierry, silvia 12:04:13 On IRC I see tmichel, Zakim, RRSAgent, davy, jack, silvia, trackbot, Yves 12:05:28 https://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/ 12:06:19 +Yves 12:08:32 Topic: 1. ADMIN 12:08:41 PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 26 August 2009 telecon 12:08:45 https://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html 12:08:46 +1 12:08:47 +1 12:08:47 +1 12:08:51 Minutes accepted 12:08:51 +1 12:08:58 zakim, mute me 12:08:58 silvia should now be muted 12:09:17 Quick poll: https://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw 12:09:42 We are still missing answers from Jack and Conrad 12:10:16 ... we are likely to meet during these 2 time slots on Thu 17 and Fri 18/09 12:10:50 [silence] 12:11:26 Anyone has a proposal for a virtual blackboard tool we could use ? 12:12:04 I can book Zakim 12:12:31 ACTION: Thierry to book Zakim on Th 17 and Fri 18/09, from 10:00 till 12:00 CET 12:12:31 Created ACTION-102 - Book Zakim on Th 17 and Fri 18/09, from 10:00 till 12:00 CET [on Thierry Michel - due 2009-09-09]. 12:12:54 Ok will convert To prper Time 12:12:58 thanks 12:13:11 Yves and I will most likely share an office during the call 12:13:59 Topic: 2. UC and Requirements 12:14:20 ACTION-101? 12:14:20 ACTION-101 -- Yves Lafon to write a UC describing the use of aspect ratio feature and thus motivating its usage -- due 2009-09-02 -- OPEN 12:14:20 https://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/101 12:14:40 ... pending 12:16:13 Raphael: reviews of our documents will come from the Media Annotations WG (Felix), and TimedText (Philippe) 12:17:17 zakim, unmute me 12:17:17 silvia should no longer be muted 12:17:27 ... Chris from SVG said that they were interested to review it, but I don't know whether they have done something 12:17:36 Yves: I will relaunch TAG early next week 12:17:45 Topic: 3. Specification 12:17:50 3.1: Terminology 12:18:09 Silvia: proposal to replace all occurence of URI by URI Ref, see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Aug/0066.html 12:19:15 Michael gave a +1 on the mailing list to this proposal 12:19:15 +1 12:19:20 +1 12:19:38 Silvia: Yves, what is your take on that? 12:20:21 https://labs.apache.org/webarch/uri/rfc/rfc3986.html#uri-reference 12:20:28 we could also say that when we say URI we mean URI reference 12:21:18 https://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/ <- title 12:21:28 Yves: if we use the term URI ref, will the people understand what we mean? 12:22:24 Silvia: alternative (also suggested by Thierry) to add a paragraph clarifying our statement 12:22:35 +1 for a preliminary paragraph 12:23:22 Silvia: I'm ok with that, just wanted to point out the issue 12:23:41 ACTION: silvia to write such a paragraph in our 2 documents, most likely within the Terminology sections 12:23:41 Created ACTION-103 - Write such a paragraph in our 2 documents, most likely within the Terminology sections [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due 2009-09-09]. 12:23:57 3.2 Syntax 12:24:00 zakim, mute me 12:24:00 silvia should now be muted 12:24:54 Proposal for RESOLUTION: we will *NOT* allow editUnits 12:24:54 for specifying the temporal dimension 12:25:05 +1 12:25:07 +1 12:25:11 +1 12:25:18 +1 12:25:23 Yves: also to not fall in the trap of the MPEG-7 complexity 12:25:36 s/MPEG-7/MPEG-21 12:25:43 RESOLUTION: we will *NOT* allow editUnits for specifying the temporal dimension 12:26:36 zakim, unmute me 12:26:36 silvia should no longer be muted 12:26:51 Discussion 2: have absolute time specification that contains day and year 12:27:12 Silvia: all done, using the clock scheme, added in the document and wiki 12:27:18 https://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#naming-syntax 12:27:27 ... based on the HTML5/SMIL EBNF syntax 12:28:00 zakim, mute me 12:28:00 silvia should now be muted 12:28:06 ACTION-49? 12:28:08 ACTION-49 -- Yves Lafon to draft the HTTP-Range syntax for different units (completing all the syntax for the two way handshake) -- due 2009-09-02 -- OPEN 12:28:11 https://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/49 12:28:34 am hoping we can get a reference implementation using flumotion for the clock time spec 12:29:09 Yves: ongoing, but will have things done at the end of this week ... At least for seconds, so people can implement 12:29:22 3.3 UA Server HTTP Communication 12:30:38 The respective role of & and #: see Silvia's blog post at https://blog.gingertech.net/2009/08/19/jumping-to-time-offsets-in-videos/ 12:31:01 s/&/? 12:31:09 Yves: what are the issues ? 12:31:21 zakim, unmute me 12:31:21 silvia should no longer be muted 12:31:29 Yves: we could mandate the use of ? when there is transcoding happening 12:31:36 ... since a new resource is created 12:31:45 ... while # will be used in other cases 12:32:13 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gregorio-uritemplate-03 12:32:35 ... the URI template might be usable now 12:32:56 Silvia: what the URI template will be used for? 12:33:34 Yves: it will be useful in the case of ? ... to say that the server is aware of how to process media sub-resources 12:33:44 Silvia: I wouldn't prescribe that 12:34:05 ... I would rather say that URI template is useful in the case of ? but not make it dependent 12:34:18 Yves: it is mostly used in definition, no need for implementation 12:34:42 ... I'm not sure this is the right solution, but worth to investigate 12:34:55 Silvia: yes, we might do a URI template for the ? 12:35:28 ... actually, I would look into it 12:35:58 zakim, mute me 12:35:58 silvia should now be muted 12:36:57 zakim, unmute me 12:36:57 silvia should no longer be muted 12:37:37 zakim, mute me 12:37:37 silvia should now be muted 12:37:47 ACTION: Yves to start a thread on the mailing list to summarize the state of the discussion regarding ? and # (? when transcoding happening, #for other cases) + use of URI template for ? 12:37:47 Created ACTION-104 - Start a thread on the mailing list to summarize the state of the discussion regarding ? and # (? when transcoding happening, #for other cases) + use of URI template for ? [on Yves Lafon - due 2009-09-09]. 12:38:13 ACTION-69? 12:38:13 ACTION-69 -- Conrad Parker to draw a representation of the general structure of a media resource, for streamable formats (H/H' + K + D1 + D2 + D3) -- due 2009-04-24 -- OPEN 12:38:13 https://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/69 12:38:25 I will ping Conrad what's the status 12:38:44 Topic: 4. Test Cases 12:38:47 -thierry 12:39:14 ACTON-93? 12:39:19 ACTION-93? 12:39:19 ACTION-93 -- Michael Hausenblas to revisit the TC and see which are effected by the temporal-optional-comma-decision -- due 2009-07-29 -- OPEN 12:39:19 https://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/93 12:39:31 still pending while I have closed ACTION-99 12:39:43 Michael tool: https://ld2sd.deri.org/corrib/ 12:39:56 +thierry 12:40:09 Should we use this tool that Michael hacks ? 12:40:47 Yves: I'm happy if Michael wants to further develop it 12:40:58 Raphael: do we have already feedback to provide to Michael ? 12:41:01 [silence] 12:41:15 Raphael: I'm happy with the tool 12:41:50 I think this table needs row numbers 12:42:08 ... I interpret your silence as you would not mind to add new TC and interact with them 12:42:30 Feature proposal: add row numbers in the table 12:42:34 thanks Slvia 12:42:40 s/Slvia/Silvia 12:42:48 also, somebody needs to add the other discussed test cases :) 12:43:25 Raphael: yes, we will ask Michael :-) 12:43:34 Topic: 5. Implementation 12:43:42 zakim, unmute me 12:43:42 silvia should no longer be muted 12:43:58 Silvia: nice demo, play it at https://new.annodex.net/~silvia/itext/mediafrag.html 12:44:00 https://blog.gingertech.net/2009/09/02/demo-of-deep-hyperlinking-into-html5-video/ 12:44:04 Blog post: https://blog.gingertech.net/2009/09/02/demo-of-deep-hyperlinking-into-html5-video/ 12:44:33 Silvia: what I have done is to showcase for the HTML5 WG what the media frag spec could do 12:45:02 ... I don't cover all the spec, temporal dimension only and simple way of specifying time 12:45:07 ... no error handling 12:45:22 ... basic goal is to replicate YouTube functionalities ... but cooler ;-) 12:45:32 ... everything implemented in Javascript 12:45:44 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael 12:46:07 ... it will become much more complicated if we implement all the schemes we foresee in the spec 12:46:23 ... but the proof of concept is more important at this point 12:47:00 Raphael: would you mind to cc the Media Fragments WG if you advertise this demo to the WHAT/HTML5 mailing lists ? 12:47:06 Silvia: no problem 12:48:38 Raphael: perhaps warn the audience that this does not cover the protocol part of the spec, how the bits will be send between the server and the UA 12:49:09 ... but on client side, it shows nicely what the media fragments URI spec will enable 12:49:34 Silvia: I have to use a hack for caching / optimizing the media duration and not perform look up all the time 12:49:52 ... Mozilla guys are happy to make this feature standard anyway 12:50:14 ... this is particular to the ogg format 12:50:48 conrad has joined #mediafrag 12:51:00 ... can I get approval from the group for advertizing this work to WHAT? 12:51:09 Raphael: absolutely ! 12:51:25 +1 12:51:30 +1 12:51:57 Conrad, you're not on the phone, I need to chase you for some actions ... pending and overdue 12:52:07 zakim, mute me 12:52:07 silvia should now be muted 12:52:13 is there any strong constraint with this hour for you? 12:52:38 ACTION-90? 12:52:38 ACTION-90 -- Davy Van Deursen to provide a pointer to Yves to a lib he can use to slice media files -- due 2009-10-14 -- OPEN 12:52:38 https://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/90 12:52:58 Davy: still pending, it is more complicated than what I thought ... 12:53:12 ... there is service, but these are not libraries we can interface 12:53:28 raphael, sorry, no strong constraint, i was delayed coming home from work 12:54:24 Davy: we will use our platform, but we need to provide the interface 12:54:33 ... for Yves's hacking 12:54:53 ... I will write more information on the wiki page when this is done 12:55:07 ... should be done by 17/09/2009 12:55:31 Wiki page: https://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ImplementationExperiment 12:55:46 ok 12:55:50 Silvia, could you add your demo on this page? 12:56:15 Topic: 6. AOB 12:56:25 Is there any other business you would like to discuss? 12:57:06 Conrad, could you please fill https://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw asap ? 12:57:45 Raphael: we should think about the structure for the virtual meeting 12:57:52 yep 12:58:10 Discussion: ? vs # / implementations / protocol stuff / test cases 12:58:21 Conrad: we need the status of your actions 12:58:39 ... and we need to have a telecon on the protocol comparison 12:58:43 when can we have that? 12:58:55 +conrad 12:58:57 how is Action-69? Is it too hard to draw? would it be better to describe? 12:59:19 action 69 is not yet done 12:59:19 Sorry, couldn't find user - 69 12:59:31 i have some diagrams close to that ;-) 12:59:41 ACTION-69? 12:59:41 ACTION-69 -- Conrad Parker to draw a representation of the general structure of a media resource, for streamable formats (H/H' + K + D1 + D2 + D3) -- due 2009-04-24 -- OPEN 12:59:41 https://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/69 12:59:56 Conrad: I have already diagrams close to that 13:01:25 Poll: https://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw 13:01:36 it would be great if you could make one of the two time slots 13:02:57 -raphael 13:02:58 -thierry 13:02:59 -Yves 13:03:02 -davy 13:03:03 [adjourned] 13:03:03 -silvia 13:03:03 IA_MFWG()8:00AM has ended 13:03:05 Attendees were raphael, +329331aaaa, davy, thierry, silvia, Yves, conrad 13:03:16 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael 13:03:37 Present+ Conrad 13:03:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael 13:09:10 davy has left #mediafrag 13:12:07 zakim, bye 13:12:07 Zakim has left #mediafrag 13:12:13 RRSAgent, bye 13:12:13 I see 3 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-actions.rdf : 13:12:13 ACTION: Thierry to book Zakim on Th 17 and Fri 18/09, from 10:00 till 12:00 CET [1] 13:12:13 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-irc#T12-12-31 13:12:13 ACTION: silvia to write such a paragraph in our 2 documents, most likely within the Terminology sections [2] 13:12:13 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-irc#T12-23-41 13:12:13 ACTION: Yves to start a thread on the mailing list to summarize the state of the discussion regarding ? and # (? when transcoding happening, #for other cases) + use of URI template for ? [3] 13:12:13 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-irc#T12-37-47