HTTP/2 200 date: Thu, 09 Oct 2025 09:50:10 GMT content-length: 12425 cf-ray: 98bcf8dbf80aea32-BLR last-modified: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:44:22 GMT etag: "3089-469e3b7622d80" cache-control: max-age=21600 expires: Thu, 09 Oct 2025 15:50:09 GMT x-backend: www-mirrors x-request-id: 98bcf8dbf80aea32 strict-transport-security: max-age=15552000; includeSubdomains; preload content-security-policy: frame-ancestors 'self' https://cms.w3.org/ https://cms-dev.w3.org/; upgrade-insecure-requests cf-cache-status: BYPASS accept-ranges: bytes set-cookie: __cf_bm=se7rzJAzGn5MfFNu27o8Z2BNH1QCI_LgJbAkoaYSxcc-1760003410-1.0.1.1-7dO0odTSwlsFZ74uSTgz_2oafmrNejI.LsI4eqZG35LiyMCIAnjIkW01sFypXNZFxgN1qwPQqqDV1thLJqp.KB_ntkvQJaAjKXRlatwRols; path=/; expires=Thu, 09-Oct-25 10:20:10 GMT; domain=.w3.org; HttpOnly; Secure; SameSite=None vary: Accept-Encoding server: cloudflare alt-svc: h3=":443"; ma=86400 13:01:19 muted 13:02:51 waiting for zakim... 13:03:08 hmm, zakim hung up on me, trying again 13:03:13 fso what are we waiting for? 13:03:20 action-265 due next week 13:03:20 attempting to change due date on ACTION-265. 13:03:20 ACTION-265 Work with Larry, Henry to frame technical issues relating to the vairous overlapping specs. about URIs, IRIs and encoding on the wire due date now next week 13:03:31 I hear people come and go, not sure if zakim has me or not 13:03:37 zakim, who is here? 13:04:01 regrets+ DanC 13:04:08 (gotta work on other stuff this week) 13:04:13 zakim, who is here 13:04:13 raman, you need to end that query with '?' 13:04:21 zakim, who is here? 13:04:21 sorry, raman, I don't know what conference this is 13:04:21 re 4/2 minutes, link https://www.w3.org/2009/04/02-tagmem-minutes.html#action01 is unfollowable 13:04:22 zakim, who is here? 13:04:23 On IRC I see noah, raman, Ashok, masinter, jar, timbl__, timbl, trackbot, DanC, ht_home, ht 13:04:25 sorry, noah, I don't know what conference this is 13:04:26 On IRC I see noah, raman, Ashok, masinter, jar, timbl__, timbl, trackbot, DanC, ht_home, ht 13:04:36 zakim, this will be tag 13:04:36 ok, jar, I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM already started 13:04:39 meeting: tagmem 13:04:45 zakim, who is here? 13:04:45 On the phone I see Masinter, Raman, Jonathan_Rees, Ashok_Malhotra, [IBMCambridge] 13:04:47 On IRC I see noah, raman, Ashok, masinter, jar, timbl__, timbl, trackbot, DanC, ht_home, ht 13:04:54 zakim, [IBMCambridge] is me 13:04:54 +noah; got it 13:05:18 oh no, I'm scribbe 13:05:27 scribenick: jar 13:05:59 Henry: are you going to join the TAG call 13:06:28 regrets: John Kemp 13:06:33 chair: Noah 13:06:37 Zakim, call timbl-office 13:06:37 ok, timbl__; the call is being made 13:06:39 +Timbl 13:06:57 regrest: Dan 13:07:02 regrets: Dan 13:07:12 next telecon next week 13:08:22 agendum: approval of minutes of 4/2 13:08:29 no objections 13:08:54 resolved: draft minutes of 4/2 approved (JAR to fix broken link) 13:09:06 action on jar: fix bad link in 4/2 minutes 13:09:06 noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it. 13:09:06 Sorry, couldn't find user - on 13:09:27 action jar: fix bad link in 4/2 minutes 13:09:27 noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it. 13:09:27 Created ACTION-267 - Fix bad link in 4/2 minutes [on Jonathan Rees - due 2009-05-21]. 13:09:39 tabled: approve minutes of 5/7 13:09:56 agendum: administrative 13:11:43 noah: Specific request to all tag members to review your open issues and actions. Otherwise they come up every week and agenda preparation is difficult. 13:11:50 q+ to ask, when do we finalize the F2F agenda? 13:11:51 sees raman on the speaker queue 13:12:05 q? 13:12:05 sees raman on the speaker queue 13:12:48 raman: When will we finalize F2F agenda? 13:13:05 noah: I want for the agenda to come from all of you. Process should start right now. 13:13:34 raman: There should be some particular deliverables to talk about 13:14:03 ... e.g. At the end of the meeting we expect to decide "we will publish X" 13:15:17 q? 13:15:17 sees raman on the speaker queue 13:15:20 ack next 13:15:20 sees raman at the head of the speaker queue 13:15:21 raman, you wanted to ask, when do we finalize the F2F agenda? 13:15:23 noah: This is the perfect time to ensure a good agenda 13:15:23 sees no one on the speaker queue 13:15:47 zakim, who is here? 13:15:47 On the phone I see Masinter, Raman, Jonathan_Rees, Ashok_Malhotra, noah, Timbl 13:15:49 On IRC I see noah, raman, Ashok, masinter, jar, timbl__, timbl, trackbot, DanC, ht_home, ht 13:16:08 agendum: XML Schema 13:17:08 noah: Rick Jeliffe has longstanding concerns 13:17:38 .. Frustrated with overall design direction, went and built Schematron language, interested in Relax NG 13:18:13 ... Schema 1.1 went to review, Rick sees this as a lost opportunity 13:18:29 ... Felt the TAG should look into this 13:19:13 ... TAG charter says issues can be raised in this way, but TAG must vote to accept the issue 13:19:41 ... if we don't pick it up, it will go to AC and director, who might ask us to look into it 13:20:03 q 13:20:03 ... Please consider over coming week whether this is something we should take up 13:20:22 ashok: What would the issue be, exactly? 13:21:31 q+ 13:21:31 sees noah on the speaker queue 13:21:43 noah: As TAG chair, I say it can be anything... what I think Rick would want is for the TAG to help W3C to come to its senses 13:23:18 ... As Schema chair, I don't think this is the right time to make this decision. This question came up at the time. I think the W3C language is sort of ugly and redundant, but it is extremely widely used. 13:24:09 ... Relax NG is sort of like Lisp (if Schema is like C++). "You shouldn't do that because you should have designed Lisp instead" 13:25:03 q+ 13:25:05 sees noah, raman on the speaker queue 13:25:07 ... Personal opinion is that W3C is doing the right thing by doing 1.1. The WG is extremely small [and tired], not clear W3C could take up the problem of a new design 13:25:45 raman: Given overlap of TAG and Schema WG, not clear TAG would be very effective 13:26:52 q+ 13:26:52 sees noah, raman, timbl__ on the speaker queue 13:27:03 q+ 13:27:03 sees noah, raman, timbl__, Ashok on the speaker queue 13:27:31 timbl: There are different communities, not clear XSD dominates in all of them 13:28:36 q? 13:28:36 sees noah, raman, timbl__, Ashok on the speaker queue 13:28:40 raman: XML Schema hasn't worked out very well. Skeptical that it really dominates 13:28:55 [to minutes editor: verify what raman was trying to say if possible] 13:29:23 ashok: Would a possible outcome be the creation of a new WG? 13:29:43 q? 13:29:43 sees noah, raman, timbl__, Ashok on the speaker queue 13:29:49 noah: TAG could express an opinion 13:29:52 ack next 13:29:52 sees noah at the head of the speaker queue 13:29:53 sees raman, timbl__, Ashok on the speaker queue 13:29:55 ack next 13:29:55 sees raman at the head of the speaker queue 13:29:56 sees timbl__, Ashok on the speaker queue 13:29:57 ack next 13:29:57 sees timbl__ at the head of the speaker queue 13:29:58 sees Ashok on the speaker queue 13:29:59 ... to profile XML Schema 13:30:01 ack next 13:30:01 sees Ashok at the head of the speaker queue 13:30:02 sees no one on the speaker queue 13:30:17 timbl: Skeptical about preponderance of XSD usage, would like to see some figures 13:30:41 noah: Any volunteers? 13:30:43 (silence) 13:31:23 masinter: Don't think the TAG can make progress on this issue. Important, but. 13:31:55 noah: OK, I've alerted everyone, we'll revisit next week, more info desirable. 13:32:03 agendum: Versioning 13:32:18 agenda? 13:32:18 sees nothing on the agenda 13:33:14 noah: Change name of issue to change 'xml' to 'language'? Does this cause any problems? 13:33:17 q? 13:33:17 sees no one on the speaker queue 13:33:24 q+ noah 13:33:24 sees noah on the speaker queue 13:33:29 ashok: Implication that it includes programming languages would be unfortunate 13:33:50 ack next 13:33:50 sees noah at the head of the speaker queue 13:33:51 masinter: We do need to talk about versions of javascript (normatively referenced by HTML) 13:33:52 sees no one on the speaker queue 13:34:09 and CSS, which is a language but not an XML language 13:35:07 noah: OK, assent to issue name change 13:35:13 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009May/0004.html 13:35:41 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Apr/0028.html 13:35:48 "Versioning and HTML -- recap" 13:36:32 masinter: In previous TAG discussion I find discussion of 'modes' 13:36:50 ... not much about ownership of MIME types, doctypes 13:37:02 ... TAG has been talking about versioning for seven years 13:37:42 ... I was hoping to collect pointers to places where these issues were discussed 13:38:16 ... I thought my email might give an outline of what would be a useful finding 13:38:18 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Apr/0063.html 13:38:49 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Apr/0075.html 13:38:55 [April 25 email: general reasons why languages change] 13:39:41 ... add, restrict, clarify, restrict meaning, incompatible 13:40:20 ... criteria for when you do/don't want to use a language indicator 13:40:37 q+ 13:40:37 sees noah on the speaker queue 13:40:40 q- 13:40:40 sees no one on the speaker queue 13:41:00 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009May/0004.html 13:41:27 [the scribe urges you to look at these email messages.] 13:41:48 ... Is this reasonable? 13:42:29 zakim, who is talking? 13:42:41 noah, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Raman (40%), Jonathan_Rees (46%) 13:43:04 I'm muted. Supposedly. 13:44:00 noah: Many technical details that could be reviewed, but don't want to back into another year of effort on versioning. 13:45:00 ... options: 1. Larry has an outline, possibly a big and time consuming project. 2. No, we've beaten our heads, doesn't feel right. 3. Continue to noodle, no commitment yet, monitor our comfort level 13:45:36 masinter: I'd like another option. Intense, time-limited, focused effort that actually attempts to give HTML WG guidance before October. 13:46:02 raman: Problem with previous effort was starting abstract 13:46:57 noah: We have a F2F in about 5 weeks. Opportunity 13:47:24 ... Then summer, historically spotty. Then Sept F2F. Let's make sure we're not fooling ourselves? 13:47:35 ... What can we do by June F2F? 13:48:15 masinter: .. would like to hear from others 13:49:22 ... June 2-17 not available 13:50:32 noah: Don't completely understand particular HTML issues... would be interesting to analyze them 13:51:40 ... Worried that nothing will happen for June due to LM unavailable, and then nothing for October due to summer 13:52:10 zakim, who's on the phone? 13:52:10 On the phone I see Masinter, Raman, Jonathan_Rees, Ashok_Malhotra, noah, Timbl 13:52:16 q? 13:52:16 sees no one on the speaker queue 13:52:24 ... Will schedule telecon discussion as there is activity 13:54:02 https://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/pendingreview 13:54:08 noah: Versioning discussion seems wrapped up for now... 13:54:14 agendum: Pending review 13:59:49 https://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/open 14:00:04 https://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/open 14:00:11 https://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/open 14:01:57 Noah should schedule action-204 for next week. 14:02:15 noah: interested in hearing about action-204 14:03:03 noah: Homework: Look at list of open actions. Figure out disposition of each one. Maybe agenda items will result. Please. 14:03:38 raman: Same tool (tracker) is being used for two things: trivial reminders, and substantial projects. 14:04:18 ... Suggestion: In IRC, tag each trivial action with 'trivial' 14:05:10 noah: Chair will transition trivial pending-review actions to closed at discretion. 14:05:42 ADJOURNED. 14:05:43 -noah 14:05:45 -Masinter 14:05:48 -Jonathan_Rees 14:05:49 -Raman 14:05:56 -Ashok_Malhotra 14:06:17 rrsagent, make logs public 14:06:28 ARGH!!! rrsagent not invited!! 14:06:36 will deal